Firelight SettersAs hunting season is winding down we have the time to get back to our interviews with our RymanSetters.com Breeder Members. We hope that you enjoy this series as we all look forward to learning more about these hunting men and women who are committed to continuing the tradition of the ryman-type setter as a wild bird hunting dog.
Interview January 10, 2019 with:
JC Smith, Sugar Creek Setters, located in the finger lakes region of New York
Thank you JC for doing this interview, particularly since I know you are busy with puppies about to go to their homes plus you are packing to leave for the annual RS Breeders Hunt in Kansas. Can you tell us a little about your occupation and interests/hobbies?
I am half retired at this point but I continue to work in regional water quality activities. My career has always focused on water quality work in the finger lakes or greater NY region in agriculture, watershed management, and water quality monitoring. I started out wanting to be a fisheries biologist and wandered away from that and went into broader issues. At that same time I was sneaking out to go grouse hunting at Connecticut Hill Wildlife Management Area . (Connecticut Hill is a very large wildlife management area in NYS that was the primary location for early ruffed grouse management research.) This is a very interesting rural area where I live. I fly fish and am often working in my wood lot and in a small way I am living the dream at this point. We also have a 60 acre farm where we can do dog training when we want. I am lucky that my wife and I got together later in life and I am able to do a lot of these things because although she is not a bird hunter herself, she helps with all of the details, inconveniences and burdens that go along with breeding and raising dogs.
How did you come to have rymans and how long have you had them
Shortly after college I joined a skeet club where a member had an English Setter . I did not know anything about hunting with bird dogs although I was trying to be a grouse hunter. I did not have a mentor or any basis for reference but this guy raved about his dog, which happened to be from Warren Sheckells of Pinecoble. (note: Pinecoble is a well known but now retired ryman kennel) I believe his dog was sired by Pinecoble Case who was Warrens first important sire. I had the good luck of calling Warren when I was looking for a puppy and he had acquired a pick puppy from Pine Wild which was a kennel of early ryman- type setters. I ended up getting a 5 month old female from Warren and he encouraged me to breed her, in part because Pinewild Kennel was basically disappearing after a 55 yr tradition of breeding English Setters. Warren had quite a bit of that blood in his early program but it was so far back that now you would have to know which dogs to look for to find them back there. Somewhere around 1993, George Bird Evans wrote an article in Pointing Dog Journal about Mrs. Hunt who was behind Pine Wild Kennel. That article launched some notoriety for the line and encouraged my own interest and involvement.
I did not know how to handle a dog, I got lucky by running across other grouse hunters with English Setters and I became part of a Grouse Camp tradition that was based in northern NY in an old maple syrup camp. That area is still a stronghold for grouse and woodcock shooting. One of the things that attracted me to breeding was that I was in control of all of the standards and decisions for that breeding and I liked the personal challenge of that. When I took a job down here by the lakes I stepped away from breeding for awhile due to career responsibilities. The interesting coincidence is that the first time that I called Warren, I got what I believe was the last of the Pine Wild line. Then years later, when I was considering buying a dog from Warren, I was able to luck into a pick female from the last breeding of Pine Coble just before Warren retired from breeding. That lucky pick is my Josie.
How many dogs do you own and what is your average number of litters a year?
Our plan is to have 2 or 3 ES at a time, we will never be in a position to do more than a litter a year. We also have an Australian Shepherd dog
If you were to write a mission statement for your breeding program, what would it include?
We breed to make a very meaningful contribution with the individual litter and to the presence of this style of bird dog at large. Success depends on cooperation with other people because we are obviously not offering any great volume in puppies. Communication and investment in time and relationships can still contribute on the whole to something that is meaningful and produce dogs that have all the genetic potential and opportunity to become a well bred companion and bird dog. Choosing dogs that balance health, conformation and field performance and temperament is a given but it deserves being said again.
Where do you hunt and what is your favorite bird species to hunt?
I got started grouse hunting as a boy with my father but didn’t understand much of it. I explored that a little more in college in the finger lakes and my primary focus remains grouse and wc. That is the wild bird venue that we have at home. We still have pretty good grouse hunting opportunities in northern NY and actually excellent wc. We have abundant opportunities for bird contact with the woodcock while hunting grouse which makes for a good formula for the dogs. Some days you shoot a limit of 3 birds and walk back to the vehicle and the dog is trying to figure out why you are done. If you have a good dog it is not hard here to find enough wc for the dog work: hunt grouse and the wc will take care of themselves. Now with retirement I am forecasting prairie birds and have hunted Kansas pheasant and quail at the RS Gathering. I like grouse and wc because it offers the standard of hunting that I enjoy. I do not want to be competing with other people for space in the woods when I am hunting but my grouse hunting is different and – the best moments of the sport are more out of reach and more delightful.
Of the species you hunt, which one do you feel is the most valuable for evaluating your dogs’ abilities, and why?
Our venue locally is grouse and wc and I think hands down that a dog handling ruffed grouse, the dog pinning the bird down, knowing when to move or stay on point, is much more discerning with grouse than wc. WC are good for developing a dogs desire and it is a delight to see a dog readily retrieve wc since some dogs don’t like it. WC seem to run more now than when I started but they are not the tremendous challenge that grouse are. I cannot speak for the other game birds that I look forward to experiencing.
Do you keep a journal or log of your hunts?
Not any more. I realized it was,for me, an interesting idea that just felt like I was adding too many expectations onto every experience. I admire people who do keep a journal. I also take very few photos in the field any more: I enjoy the moment more than trying to photograph it.
Tell us about your training philosophy and approach to dog work on birds when hunting
I think for myself and for many others, keeping it very simple and elementary is most successful. The two or three commands that are important to me are: come, whoa, and for a dog that has a lot of experience working birds – okay. I use okay as a release to continue searching as when the dog is on point but its posture says something is going on and it needs to be released. My training philosophy is keep it simple. I have had success working w pen raised birds but I don’t do much of it. I think it is easier to train bad habits than it is to train good ones and I’m fortunate in that I can run my dogs on wild in late winter and transition from summer to fall when it is not a shooting season. Running a dog in a field, a little whistle work, blank gun to celebrate flushing after a point and 95% of dog training is learning how to behave in the presence of your own dog. I do not diminish people who are interested in steady to flush, etc but for my hunting I want the dog to be following where the bird goes.
I believe that, the more dogs that you have had, the more you learn about how to behave with your dogs and controlling your own projection of emotions and state of mind is probably more important than the mechanics of training. There are a lot of mechanical ways to train a dog but your state of mind and emotions are what you transfer to the dog. But like most people, the best dog is the next dog that I will have because I am learning how to behave better from each successive dog.
Thank you JC for taking the time for the interview. Safe travels and happy hunting out in Kansas.
