Sugar Creek English SettersHello everyone,
It’s Sunday evening on November 1, with a dark sky and hard winds that promise to lay maybe one last flight of fresh woodcock in our Finger Lakes coverts. Hopefully everyone had the October we all wish for and some more days of the same are coming in November.
A friend and his son will start a new pup soon. With the goal of setting him up with a reference or two to help them on their new adventure, I am writing for your help.
What training books you have found most helpful to you in training a young setter, and why? I’ll tell you I always liked “Wing and Shot” by Robert Wehle, and “Hunt Close” by Jerome Robinson. To me, I learned the most about attitude as a trainer and owner from those authors. The techniques worked for me, and you got a feel for what the author was saying beyond a prescriptive or mechanical approach.
Thanks!
Other than basic companion training, I’m a “no training” person so I’m not very helpful with training books. But I can suggest Ben O Williams book “Bird Dog.” He develops dogs in as natural a manner as possible with famous results. A small exerpt: “My theory of letting a dog train itself on wild birds goes back to bloodlines. I always look to excellent genes that carry the natural ability to point, back and retrieve. The bloodlines also need to show intelligence which expedites self-training. A smart pup develops quickly ad learns to hunt cover that holds birds.”
While I believe in what Lynn Dee is saying, there are a few things I like to do before my bird dog hits the woods. I like to do an intro to birds and an intro to gun fire. The only command I really instill is the come command. To me it is very important for a dog to come when called. I also do an intro to the e-collar. Now understand a ryman does not need any pressure training, my collar has a beeper on it that I will use as a call back, and a pager function I use as correction. I don’t like to use whistles or yell when I’m in the woods. Proper introduction to the collar is very important, I will put the collar on my dog only when we get to go outside and have fun, I also keep the collar off for 2 to 3 weeks. That’s why when my dogs collar comes out, he gets so excited he can hardly contain himself. I don’t read a lot of books on training I watch dvds. My favorite is prefect start perfect finish, it’s positive reinforcement, he has a very soft setter on there he uses and turns him into a great hunting dog. He shows on many different dogs how to read them and teach them, and there is no greater teacher than birds, lots and lots of birds:) Get your basic commands down and do your intro’s and find birds, lots and lots of birds:)
Lynn Dee, Robert,
Thanks. I am in your camp. I don’t do a great deal of formal training once my dogs are started. I do like working with quail with pups and young dogs, and may do quite a bit next year as I am starting a new pup. I am looking for a book for a friend though. You have to know some things in starting a dog, and instruction from an expert helps! Its worth remembering there is no such thing as no training. Our dogs learn how to behave around us all the time.
The vast majority of training for me is obedience.
A good read for a quality training book is Paul Longs “Training Pointing Dogs”. Sadly they have changed the cover from Paul walking with a setter to a picture of a GSP.
There are a number of books out there that tell you what to do, but they dont explain why, or what to do when your dog isnt playing by the rules. This is an old time trainers book that also trains the trainer. Some of the methods are, lets just say… out of date, especially considering the ecollar had just come out at the time and some methods of correction prior to the ecollar were still being used by trainers.
My first two ryman types from years back, had that horrible stubborn streak, along with exceptionally soft personalities, that left me feeling inept. So I foolishly sent them to a couple different pros. It wasnt until I spoke with a long time ryman aficionado who pointed out that the ryman types work to please you, not others.
So if you feel like a bit of training and understanding is good for you to know as a trainer, this book should prove helpful.
Thanks to Fred, I forgot about that one, and have a copy around myself. I agree, its the train the trainer approach. That is what I liked about Wehle and Robinson’s books. Those are the two are gave to my friend.
Troubles with Bird Dogs by GBE is a good reference and with any of his books, a good read. Typical with George, he goes into a lot of detail, for someone like me who didn’t know any better I ended up trying to do too much, too soon with my first setter. Like most anything, you have to pick and choose and adapt to your situation/dog. Now that I know a little more, I use it as a good reference and refresher. I recently acquired TRAINING YOUR POINTING DOG FOR HUNTING & HOME by Dick Weaver, which I’ve yet to read cover to cover, but so far I like it. The best knowledge I have gained is picking up a tip here and a tip there from others with experience and then distilling it down to the current situation.
With Belle, I took more of a “No Training” approach in the field and she figures the birds out herself.